Path: paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Nightbulb.net" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.roman-catholic Subject: Re: The Witchtower Society Followup-To: alt.bible Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 12:34:20 -0500 Organization: Mixmin Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 17:33:37 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: news.mixmin.net; posting-host="e3c58e0892868c302083fdd75ea0a5977bc0fd25"; logging-data="469176"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@mixmin.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Xref: paganini.bofh.team alt.bible:648279 alt.christnet.christianlife:1020109 alt.religion.roman-catholic:309 On 7/20/22 19:11, Michael McLean wrote: > Nightbulb wrote: >> To allay such confusion I will spell out the truth: >> >> Mankind rebelled against God, and fell into mortality. God loves >> mankind and is not willing that a single soul should perish. So God >> sent his Son to take away the sins of the world. His Son died for ALL >> sins, and wiped the slate clean for all who believe on the Son. Those >> who didn't believe on the Son in that age were cast into an age of >> fire and brimstone (today), to be forged by God until they are ready >> to believe. Then all men, both saints and the unbelievers, will be >> raised from the dead and re-united to be judged by God. God will >> reward all men according to the deeds done in the flesh during the >> ages of trial in fire. The dragon (religion) will be no more. All men >> will inherit resurrected bodies in which there is no sin nature, and >> will live forever. >> >> In the end not a single soul of men will be lost. All who went on to >> destruction shall be restored, and will have learned the goodness and >> mercy of God from the horrible experience. No one will ever speak a >> word against God and his authority from that time forever. >> >> All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. There will >> be no competent fact witness in the day of judgement to accuse anyone, >> hence men will only be judged by the words from their own mouths! The >> religious will speak words of glowing praise about their own Christian >> piety. The redeemed will speak humble and remorseful words about the >> goodness of God in forgiving their sins. This is how men will be >> judged, by their own words! >> >> Those who know they have nothing to boast about in their own works >> will receive the greater glory in heaven. Those who were full of their >> own righteousness the lesser glory--the proud being servants to the >> meek and humble. > > This is essentially what the Lord has been telling me, recently. > > Why the focus right now, I don't know, but I'm going with it! :-). As a > consequence, my heart has been greatly enlarged, rather expanded in the > beholding of Him, and the love for my neighbour likewise. > > You have made a timely appearance.  Praise the Lord. Yes! He is telling you, me, and others. Jehovah is pulling back the curtain on some things that have been hidden by church brainwashing. When I open the scripture to read, it is like reading a movie, and every time I come back to replay a scene I see details I didn't see the last time. This is happening with others. I don't know how many, but I pray it is very many very soon. We contend with the obstinate because it shows us the mercy of God. They will see his mercy in the end when they inherit unfathomable glory. Get your sippie-cup. This is a long read. I will say a little of what I know on a spiritual matter but I will hint at my meaning rather than being literal about the whole matter. 'Elohim' in Hebrew means a mighty, spreading tree. We then see in Revelation a tree over the waters, bearing twelve kinds of fruit. "I am the trunk, ye are the branches ..." "Every tree that bears not fruit is cut down ..." Then there is the grafting of the wild olive branches metaphor. 'Elohim' is a special plural word, that means a composite of the root word 'El' or 'Ul' and refers to turning of a wheel or axis of rotation, as in the sense of mighty branches rotating around a very strong and deep-rooted trunk. 'Elohim' as a plural title has a special meaning, signifying the 'royal we' sense of plurality. It is not just a 'plurality of majesties' but a 'plurality of us' taken as one. "Hear o Israel, Jehovah our Elohim is One." "Let US make man after our own image ..." This tree is much more than a trinity. It is a huge tree with spreading and sprawling branches that reach out into the heavens and the earth. If we parse the Hebrew correctly without using English ideas a clearer picture emerges. The ancient Hebrew, "Burrow" or "Barau" means to plant, dig, or set root. It is often translated, "create" but is a formative creation like growing a tree or fattening beef on the hoof, not an abracadbra creation. Genesis 1:1 in Hebrew says (roughly in English sounds): "By Rashe burrow Elohim etha Skyim vwond etha Ertz." In modern Hebrew they pronounce it: "Bereshith barau Elohim et ha shamayim v'et et ha Eretz" or something similar. It's been a long time since I've read the Hebrew so my memory is not necessarily perfect. Modern Hebrew has a lot of vowels that don't belong there that have been picked up over the centuries. "By Rashe" is the "Chief Son" or "Firstborn" or "Only Begotten." This is what it means in ancient Hebrew. "By Rashe" also means "by or through the firstborn." "In the Beginning" is the KJV translation, but By Rashi means "Beginning of the family." It is not a "beginning" in the sense of time but rather the beginning in the sense of authority or source of authority: "Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the _beginning_ of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power ..." If you examine the Greek of John 1 you will see the Greek words chosen there are lost in the English translation, and mean the same as the Hebrew of Genesis 1 and 'beginning' in Genesis 49:3. Look up 'en arche' versus 'protos.' The ancient Hebrew 'rashe' is similar to Greek 'arche' and shares similar meaning. Interestingly the Siniatic Hebrew script is related to the Proto-Greek script, or Phoenician script. Although the languages are very different there are a lot of similarities of words, which most likely are cognates from an earlier ancestor from which both languages borrowed. This brings us to Psalm 82: "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. * How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. * Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. * I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations." All debates about the creation days, length of the creation, time span of the creation and so forth are pointless because Genesis was not written to provide a history lesson. Even Martin Luther knew this and wrote about it in great detail in his commentary on Psalm 82: "Once upon a time popes, bishops, priests, and monks had such authority that, with their little letters of excommunication, they could force and drive kings and princes wherever they wished, without resistance or defense." "Nay, kings and princes could not ruffle a hair of any monk or priest, no matter how insignificant the maggot was. They had to put up with it when a rude jackass in the pulpit would vilify a king and a prince and make fun of them as his wanton will suggested. That was called preaching, and no one dared utter a peep against it. The worldly rulers were completely subject to these clerical giants and tyrants and these dissolute, rude fellows walked all over them. So mighty was the rule of the single canon, si quis suadente! Besides, it was not understood or taught what temporal rulership was, or how great the distinction was between it and spiritual government. For this reason none of the worldly lords knew how to revenge himself upon the clergy, except by being too hostile to them, speaking evil of them, and, when he could, playing secret tricks on them, or winking at what others did." "Now, however, the Gospel has come to light and it makes a plain distinction between the temporal and the spiritual estate, and teaches, besides, that the temporal estate is an ordinance of God which everyone ought to obey and honor. Therefore they are rejoiced because they are free, and the spiritual tyrants have to pull in their pipes, and the tables are turned. Now popes, bishops, priests and monks have to fear and honor the princes and lords and nobles, make them gifts and presents, keep the fasts and the feasts, and worship at their feet as though they were their gods." "This tickles them so that they do not know how to abuse this grace and liberty wantonly enough; and meanwhile they are persecuting the Gospel, by means of which they have become gods and lords over the clergy, under the pretense of protecting and defending the spiritual estate. But alas for the protection that the clergy get at such a price that it hurts body and life; though, to be sure, it serves them right!" "Moreover, in order to show still more thanks to the Gospel, they will not allow it to rebuke their wickedness and self-will. They have now discovered a new device, and declare that whoever rebukes them is seditious and rebels against the rulership ordained of God, and defames their honor. Thus, since they are rid of the tyranny of the clergy, and cannot be rebuked by them, they now want to be rid of the Gospel and be beyond its rebuke, although it has set them free. Their ultimate desire is to be able to do whatever they wish, without hindrance or rebuke, without shame or fear, and with honor and glory, so that they may become that noble, praiseworthy folk, of whom St. Peter says in 2 Peter 3:3, “There shall come at the last time scoffers, who live acording to their own selfwill, and do what they please.”" "There were such junkerlets among the Jewish people, too, as this Eightysecond Psalm shows. They had before them, the saying of Moses, in Exodus 22:8, where he calls the overlords and judges “gods,” and says, “If a case cannot be decided, both parties are to be brought before the gods, that is, the judges, etc.” They made of this passage a cloak for their shame, and a defense of their iniquity against the preachers and prophets; they would not be rebuked by them, puffed themselves up against their rebukes and their preaching, and smote them on the head with this saying: “Will you rebuke us and teach us? Do you not know that Moses calls us gods? You are a rebel; you are speaking against God’s ordinance and preaching insults against our honor. You must listen to us, learn from us, and let yourself be rebuked by us. Hold your tongue, or you must burn!”" [.....] "He has to say it in plain words, and openly confess and boast that the communities are His; for mad Reason, in its shrewdness, and all the worldly-wise know not at all that a community is God’s creature and His ordinance, but have no other thought about it than that it has come into being by accident, by people holding together and living side by side in the same way that murderers and robbers and other wicked bands come together to disturb the peace and the ordinance of God; and these are the devil’s congregations. It is only believers that know the articles about creation from Genesis 1:29, though even their faith in it is weak, and many of them never think of it or speak of it. But David knows it very well, when he says in Psalm 24:1, “The earth is the Lord’s and they that dwell therein; for He hath founded it upon the seas and built it upon the waters”; and his son Solomon says, in Psalm 126:1, “Except God keep house and city, the builder and the watchman build and watch in vain.” What should the worldly-wise know of heavenly things, when they do not know these things, amongst which they live and move?" "Since such communities are God’s work, which He daily creates, supports and increases, so that they can sit at home and produce children and educate them: therefore this word is, in the first place, a great and pleasant comfort to all those who find themselves situated in such a community. It assures them that God accepts them as His work and His creation, cares for them and protects and supports them, as we can, in fact, see with our own eyes. For who could have or keep a cow or a heller, if God did not give it and help and guard it? Therefore, everyone ought to admonish himself to be thankful for everything that is offered him by his rulers, and be glad that, in such a community, he is worthy to eat his bread and live." "For this word “congregation of God” is a precious word, and anyone who is in it ought to be ten times more glad than if he were enrolled as a Roman citizen, which was once a great honor on earth. But Reason does not consider this." "In the second place, it is a terrible and threatening word against the wicked, self-willed gods, or rulers, for it tells them that they are set over, not wood and stone, not swine and dogs (about which God has made no commandments) but over the “congregation of God”; and they ought to fear lest the wrong that they do be done against God Himself. For the congregations are not their own, as are the swine and dogs, which God has given them as their own property; but He is, and wills to be, in them, and they are to be called His congregation. On both sides, then, everything will go well, in the fear of God and in humility. Subjects will have regard to God and gladly be obedient for His sake, and rulers will also have regard to God and do right and keep peace for His sake." "But especially ought this fear and humility to be in that congregation which was not only first founded and created by that word in Genesis 1, but which was established and ordered by a special word of God. Thus the communities of the people of Israel were confirmed in many ways through Moses, and chosen before all others, and separated from them. It is especially of these communities that this Psalm speaks, and it calls them, above all others, “God’s congregations,” just as they are called in all the prophets His heritage, His possession, His kingdom, His priesthood; though it was in these very “congregations of God” that the worst and most ravenous gods were found, and the most self-willed and proudest rebels that could be upon the earth, as this Psalm indicates and history testifies." "The same thing is true of our rulers, under the New Testament. Beside their creation by the word of Genesis 1, they have been established anew, through Christ, by a special word. For He says, in Matthew 22:21, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s”; and in 1 Peter 3:13, “Be subject to every ordinance of man”; and in Romans 13:1, “Let every man be subject to his rulers”; and there are many more passages. This Psalm, therefore, applies to our rulers, as well as to the Jews, just as every other Scripture of the Old Testament is given to us, as well as to the Jews. For this reason, in our communities, too, this fear and humility, both of gods and subjects, ought to be all the more in evidence. Nevertheless, our condition will continue to be that of which this Psalm sings; and it says nothing good about the gods and their virtues." "Now in order that these proud gods may be deprived of their defiant boastfulness, when they think that no one is to judge them or rebuke them without being called a rebel, a little peg is driven into them and a club is laid by the dog, so that they may be properly rebuked, boldly spoken to, and hard and sharply threatened, as this Psalm does. For it says here, “God standeth in His congregation and judgeth the gods”; that is, He rebukes them. For He keeps the upper hand over them and the right to judge them, and does not make them gods in such wise as to abolish His own Godhead and let them do as they please, as if they alone were gods over God. On the contrary, it is His will that they be subject to His Word and either listen to it or suffer all misfortune. It is enough that they have rule over all else; but over God’s Word they are not to have it. For God’s Word appoints them, and makes them gods, and subjects everything to them." (Works Of Martin Luther - The Eighty-Second Psalm - Translated And Explained) It does not surprise me that Luther knew, because he was a ancient language scholar who translated the bible into German. The question Christians today can't answer is: "What is the creation of God spoken of in Genesis?" The writer chose the words carefully to convey multiple, complementary symbols in one go. This was not particularly hard to do in ancient Hebrew or Greek because they were both highly symbolic languages and many words had multiple meanings, lending to very interesting poetry. What is remarkable is that John 1 is conveying the same message as Genesis 1, but in Greek. If you can understand the Greek there, then you can understand the original meaning of the Hebrew in Genesis 1. I will not say the unavoidable conclusion to avoid the agitation of swine that find pearl necklaces. I pray you can read between the lines. It is clear to me that Jesus Christ is mentioned in the first two words of Genesis and his family in the first three words. Paul knew: "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named ..." (John 10:34-36) Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;" "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" Elohim indeed. -- Nightbulb https://blog.nightbulb.net Flip the night switch