Path: paganini.bofh.team!tor-network!not-for-mail From: "NightBulb.net" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.religion.christianity,alt.atheism Subject: Re: Still believe in hellfire? Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 19:52:53 -0500 Organization: To protect and to server Message-ID: References: <0pahgi1h0qivfdq0jl9u9bifnked4ojut7@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 00:52:50 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: paganini.bofh.team; logging-data="3544240"; posting-host="jzpKNblLWFUraYHFQd2DTw.user.paganini.bofh.team"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@bofh.team"; posting-account="9dIQLXBM7WM9KzA+yjdR4A"; Cancel-Lock: sha256:whe3FXIHNL6hPs1p2rdlWL1SWjJBPGsaD8Fjc8aCo8c= X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.3 X-TOR-Router: 94.102.51.15 Xref: paganini.bofh.team alt.bible:662751 alt.religion.christianity:6312 alt.atheism:4880763 On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 17:40:14 -0500 Just a guy wrote: > And of course the truth is what believers say it is, right? Give your evidence of this claim. You made a claim, now prove it. You claimed that believers define the truth as they see fit. Prove it. First define what is a believer, and prove that definition. Then define what is truth and prove that definition. Then prove that "truth is what believers say it is" and do it with rigor or in the alternative go piss up a rope and stop cross-posting to alt.bible. But the bible which is being discussed says no such thing as your claim. The bible says that God himself will show and prove the truth. The Bible repeats this statement in various wordings all throughout many of its books. The Bible explains in many ways how to define and arrive at an understanding of truth and meaning of its content. If you had actually studied the Bible with any degree of rigor you would know this. So we can only assume your Bible knowledge is second-hand or scant patchwork-quality sound bites. You are re-framing the debate to suit your own presuppositions. And you have evinced no foundational knowledge to support those preconceived notions. > So where is your proof that this God is real and has spoken to anyone? Those who have heard Him don't bother wasting their time trying to prove anything to liars with an inimical and hostile agenda. I certainly won't bother trying to prove anything to you. We rather just poke holes in the nonsense of unqualified critics and let them expose their lack of qualification and dearth of analytical rigor. I already can see you don't know what proof is. You obviously don't exert textual or academic rigor in criticism, so I by right perceive this about you. > The bible certainly isn't evidence of God. Give your evidence of this claim. You made a claim, now prove it. You claim the bible isn't evidence of God. Prove your claim. Define "evidence" and prove your definition with rigor. Define "Bible" and prove your definition with rigor. Define "God" and prove your definition with rigor. Then prove your claim, "the bible certainly isn't evidence of God" and do it with rigor. > Let us all see the evidence of your claims, here and now. Today. No, you first. You are using a propaganda tactic and logical fallacy called shifting the burden of proof. It is a mind trick used by bullshitters and anti-didacts with axes to grind for covering the vacuity of their own claims and beliefs. You evince zero foundational knowledge with which to criticize either the Bible or the faith of believers who trust the testimonies in the Bible. You offer nothing to back your claims, then you demand others prove your baseless contentions wrong. This burden shifting violates the established methods of academic and scientific rigor. Any person of average intelligence can see the empty and baseless nature of your presuppositions. You need to remedy that before you can pretend you are persuing honest inquiry or intelligent debate. If you will read my past posts in this newsgroup you will notice that I follow these methods and present my statements with rigorous proof. You will also notice that the usual suspects, atheist and Christian alike, almost never prove anything they claim. They resort to eisegesis and anachronisms to squeeze their novel ideas /into/ the Bible rather than textual criticism to extract the meaning /from/ the Bible. The usual suspects blurt out streams of irrelevant scripture passages without any cogent explanation. Perhaps they think thereby to have razzle-dazzled a victorious argument from the book of Bible spells. In general Atheists do the same as the eisegetical Christians with whatever source they fancy in the moment. This describes your argumentative fallacies. But instead of pulling out magic Bible verses to razzle-dazzle, you make bald claims and demand evidence to the contrary. And if this is all you have to offer please do me a favor and stop cross-posting your drek to alt.bible. -- NightBulb | https://nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.