Path: paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Nightbulb.net" Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.bible,alt.messianic,alt.atheism Subject: Re: Message to Lucy Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 09:48:42 -0500 Organization: Mixmin Message-ID: References: <54urchp06hm41ujlmklghudhg8qojeapin@4ax.com> <9retchlg1jk1aihiqek0eejaof5gd68ah7@4ax.com> <62eidh53u0jhh5odebvbu4gddsudsk1ppb@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 14:47:54 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: news.mixmin.net; posting-host="8fcfc33f4bbbdd2d6baf381cb7b4ae9970631200"; logging-data="448539"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@mixmin.net" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <62eidh53u0jhh5odebvbu4gddsudsk1ppb@4ax.com> Xref: paganini.bofh.team alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic:1144445 alt.christnet.christianlife:1020090 alt.bible.prophecy:733623 alt.bible:648271 alt.messianic:508678 alt.atheism:4729900 On 7/21/22 06:57, zebra2@windstream.net wrote: > Correction. Make that "cross", a stake. It translates the Greek word > "stauros " which means an upright stake. This is a common myth among Christian revisionists. "Stauros" does in fact mean "cross" and was used to mean "cross" for quite a long time before Jesus was crucified. "Upright stake" was an earlier use of the word, but the form and use of it in the Greek New Testament is the same as the Latin "crux" or "crucifix" or "cross." The Greek "stauros" is a translation of the Latin "crux" and means the same thing. In the time of Homer "stauros" was used to mean a impaling stake or pole. But the meanings of words change over time and take on new senses. The JW "torture stake" doctrine is a folk etymology not grounded in historical reality. The stauros was a implement of torture for centuries before Christ. By the time the Romans adopted this implement of torture, the Romans added a cross-beam to the stake, calling it a crux. At that time the Greek word stauros came to generally refer to the Roman cross-beam, or crux, rather than just an impaling stake. The Romans compelled the condemned victim to carry his own cross-beam to the already fixed stake, hence the phrase, "Take up your cross." This is in reference to the 'furca' or 'crux' beam, not to the upright stake by itself. Everyone in the first century reading the Greek "stauros" in the Gospels understood it meant "cross." None of them understood it to mean just a "stake." Strong's dictionary makes this distinction: 4716 staurós – the crosspiece of a Roman cross; the cross-beam (Latin, patibulum) placed at the top of the vertical member to form a capital “T.” “This transverse beam was the one carried by the criminal” Those who don't actually know Greek or Hebrew and the historical etymological changes of words, make false assumptions then build mistaken doctrines upon their ignorance. They assume the ancient Homerian usage of the word is the only meaning, then build a philosphy on that meaning, not understanding that the usage of words varies by dialect, region, culture, and time, even among people who speak a common lanauge. The JWs saw a older variant definition of "stauros" being a "upright impaling stake" then come to the erroneous conclusion that it doesn't mean "cross." But it does mean "cross". All first-century followers of Jesus who read the scripture where the word "stauros" occured understood it to mean "cross", not "upright stake." None of them interpreted the word to mean an impaling stake. It was widely understood as the Roman version with the cross-beam, hence, "cross." -- Nightbulb https://blog.nightbulb.net Flip the night switch