Path: paganini.bofh.team!eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "NightBulb.net" Newsgroups: alt.bible Subject: Re: Have you had a Bible baptism? Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2022 15:32:20 -0600 Organization: Mixmin Message-ID: References: <638e1c7c$0$2254$1c4686b2@news.club.cc.cmu.edu> <5uobphppunhrjuf09fbv747elneo3773r4@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2022 05:46:58 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: news.mixmin.net; posting-host="35ccbc5c9accf3be11681c233a31b48b7dd3ff6a"; logging-data="2848539"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@mixmin.net" Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <5uobphppunhrjuf09fbv747elneo3773r4@4ax.com> Xref: paganini.bofh.team alt.bible:653968 On 12/11/22 08:39, zebra2@windstream.net wrote: > NightBulb.net" wrote: > >> On 12/7/22 08:54,zebra2@windstream.net wrote: >>> On 05 Dec 2022 16:29:48 GMT, servant wrote: >>> >>>> Friend james, what is your answer to the question? >>> Yes, I had a Bible baptism. I was immersed in a large pool of water. I >>> understood most of Jesus' teachings. And I requested a good conscience >>> before God. >> Did you observe the law of ritual circumcision prior to being baptized? > ?? I asked you this because under the law you must first be circumcised. That was the base requirement to enter into the Old Covenant. >> Or did you haphazardly enter into the dead covenant of Moses? > I entered into a covenant with Jesus and Jehovah God. The OT was done > away with Jesus' death. > >> You have to be circumcised by a Levite priest before you do the water >> ritual. > The OT was done away with Jesus' death. Then why are you preaching a Old Covenant water ritual? By your mouth you claim to believe the old Covenant was done away, and then out of the other side of your mouth and your deeds you are placing men under a duty to observe the water washing ritual of the Old Covenant. Water washing is abolished in the New Covenant: "but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” It's the name and the Spirit doing the sanctifying and washing. Not a pool of water! >> So what you had was a Old Covenant baptism without the required >> circumcision by a Levite. > Again, the OT was done away with Jesus' death. Then why are you preaching the water baptism of the Old Covenant? >> You must do all the works of the Law perfectly if you want salvation by >> the law. How is that going for you? > m, > > You have not been reading my posts. Christ's death ended the Mosaic > Laws. Yes, I have been reading your posts. It is you that cannot hear my word. You are claiming that a New Covenant baptism involves being dunked in water. And this is a lie. The key is in the scripture you quoted below in Matthew 28:19-20. "... baptizing them in the name ..." New covenant baptism is to be washed in the Word, not to be washed in a pool of water. You are rejecting the washing in the Word for a dead work of washing in water. The Old Covenant washing in water was a symbol of the real cleansing to come, washing in the blood and spirit of Jesus. The Word of God is, 'living waters.' We are all made to "drink of one spiritual drink." "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (John 4:14)" This is the baptism that saves, not dunking in water: "but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." >> Please describe baptism under the New Covenant, and how your religious >> organization achieves this. > Total emersion. And the person getting baptized must understand much > about Jesus, etc: You are wrong. Understanding Jesus *is* baptism in the New Covenant. Full stop. To have the testimony of the Holy Spirit IS BAPTISM. To add water to that is to deny the sacrifice has already been made. The water was preparatory to the sacrifice on the altar. Understanding Jesus *is* total immersion in the Word. It's not about immersion in water. It is about immersion in Him. The moment one hears the name of Jesus, and believes on Him, that is the moment he is baptized, "in the name." It is his name spoken by the Spirit that is doing the baptism. It's the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves. Baptism in water has nothing to do with it. Water baptism is the Old Covenant purification ritual performed PRIOR to the sacrifice for sin. One had to bring forth fruits meet for repentance (the sacrifice) and then they burned, offered, or killed the sacrifice. The water baptism was to be made ritually clean for the sacrifice, UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. When the Apostles baptized, they baptized people in the living water of the word, the Holy Spirit. They did not dunk them in a pool. They washed them in the Word. When 3000 men heard the good news preached they were baptized by the Holy Spirit as soon as they heard it. Peter then told them to get water washed and Paul sternly and publicly rebuked Peter for it, calling it the dead works of the law. I previously posted about this. So how do you accuse me of not reading your post? You have three fingers pointing back at you! > (Matthew 28:19, 20) Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all > the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son > and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I > have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the > conclusion of the system of things.” "... baptizing them IN THE NAME ..." Not, baptizing them in a pool of water. We who are saved are washed not in water, but in the living water of the Word of God: "but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." This is the testimony of the Holy Spirit doing the washing. You don't have a New Covenant baptism. You are doing the water washing of the Old Covenant, which is supposed to be done BEFORE the sacrifice and not after. Since the sacrifice has already been done, you can't bring forth fruits meet for repentance because God the Father already provided the fruit and the sacrifice. By doing water baptism you are negating the shed blood of Jesus, who is the sacrifice. If you have been made clean by his blood, why would you wash in water? The answer is because you mis-read, mis-interpret, and mis-apply the scripture. And under the Old Covenant, before you brought forth sacrificial fruits, and before you washed in water, you had to first be circumcised. So you missed the whole point of my questions because you don't understand the Old Covenant, let alone the New Covenant. So you claim in your own words that to have a bible baptism, "And the person getting baptized must understand much about Jesus ..." Yet you don't understand either the Old Covenant or the New Covenant, thus you don't know much about Jesus. I am here now, preaching to you the true gospel, which is simply that we are washed clean of sin by the blood of Jesus and BY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LESS AND NOTHING MORE OF ANYTHING OF ANY KIND OF DEED OR WORK WHATSOEVER. This is the foolishness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, that we are made clean by no effort of our own. Not your own faith, not your own belief, but by trusting in His faith, and his belief, for he trusted, believed, and obeyed the Father ON OUR BEHALF. This is why I repeatedly warn that the Christian religion is an organized blasphemy against Jesus Christ. Because it is. It requires works--meetings, prayers, dunkings, sprinklings, eating crackers, eating cookies, and always in one way or another claims these things are essential to the "Christian life" when it's all nonsense. The only thing essential to being a Son of God is to HEAR the testimony of the Holy Spirit (the Word) and Jesus is that word, and believe on Him. That's it. That's the end. Once you have that event, you are done, it is over, you are saved, there is NOTHING more. You then go your way and listen to the Spirit, and follow the Spirit, NOT A RELIGIOUS PROGRAM. So you show your ignorance of the Old Covenant and the old water baptism and the new spirit baptism, so you don't understand much about Jesus at all. Yet here you are pretending to be a teacher of Jesus. I know Jesus. He is in me and I am in Him. I know what I speak of because I have heard it from God, not from man. I do not know this from scripture study, going to church, prayers, or any effort of my own. I know this because the word of the good news was presented to me and God's spirit opened my ears to hear it. I did not open my own ears. I did not give sight to my own eyes. He opened my ears and eyes. You claim the Old Covenant was done away in Jesus, then you teach men to submit to the water baptism of the Old Covenant. "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." This is you. Which covenant is it, the Old or the New? You are trying to choose both, you double-minded man. Here is the difference between us, James. I was baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost, in the Name of Jesus Christ. God the Father and the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ performed this baptism on me. It was not because of my own free will or any of that religious nonsense. It was because it was the Father's will. You are still trying to find salvation in a baptismal work of the law. Paul rebuked Peter for the very "bible baptism" that you are teaching, James: "But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." James, you are making the mistake of Peter. You are compelling the Gentiles to live as the Jews, under water washing and works of the law. Peter repented of the mistake and confessed his mistake openly in front of many witnesses, showing he is a saved man who just made a mistake. If you do not do so, you will be proving conclusively that you are not washed in the Word and are just another religious Pharisee who is playing the game of Church for his own gain. I was once similar to you, James, confused and dissimulating in the demands of religion. The gospel changed me from the inside out. Then the Lord spoke to me, and wrote his law on my heart, and opened my eyes to see that by no work of any kind is man saved. Man is saved when the Holy Spirit testifies to him of the FINISHED WORK of Jesus Christ Our Lord. That *is* baptism. Salvation comes by HEARING, not by dunking. As long as you cling to your Church cult you CANNOT walk in this baptism. You are resisting the spirit and preferring dead works. -- Nightbulb | https://blog.nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch. If tacky red hats annoy Pharisees I want to buy hats for the whole town.