Path: paganini.bofh.team!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: NightBulb Newsgroups: alt.bible Subject: Re: Genesis - Chapter One. Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 04:49:18 -0600 Organization: BlueWorld Hosting Usenet (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2023 10:47:19 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com; logging-data="66429"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blueworldhosting.com" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.6.0 Cancel-Lock: sha1:ngYs8b53pkGryaV5fH2+uGacgxs= sha256:wCYXCRU9vCdspU0gocPMM0hpdjaHwmks7fAPZ4FLowM= sha1:piV6hjwn7Uj/fHt8WOdW8gB1MW4= sha256:ESTs3MXS6j8+FP2Kvuoha8bGZeDdN2ndAfjhBfG3vdA= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Xref: paganini.bofh.team alt.bible:655536 On 2/4/23 18:17, Michael McLean wrote: > On 5/02/2023 10:51 am, Ted wrote: >> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 09:52:08 +1100, Michael McLean >> wrote: >>> The Lord has asked me to take someone through the whole Bible.  It >> is >>> really the Lord, though, as I have no power of my own.  It means >> you are >>> stuck with me for a little while longer. >> >> >>> Try to contain your joy!  Please, no hinds' feet in high places >>> frolicking in ecstasy! >> >> >>> However, I sense a great blessing for my atheist and diabolical >>> religious friends! >> >> >>> We went through Genesis Chapter 1 yesterday.  I will pass along, >> along >>> the way, "some" points that are helpful to you. >> >> >>> Here is one now: God clearly created the heavens and the earth in >> six >>> literal days. That's the end of the story. You are fixing the length of the day based upon your belief. The Hebrew word translated as DAY is JOWM and it can mean both a literal day and an unspecified time period or an age. The Hebrew JOWM is used much like the English DAY: 1. In our "day and age"; 2. Back in the day; 3. The good old days; None of which mean twenty-four hours. Even the phrase, "day of the Lord" is referring to a future age, not a literal day of 24 hours. >> >> >>> If He can create a universe and you, which clearly He did, then >> doing it >>> within the morning and evening of 6 days is a walk in the park for >>> Him...more like a syllable from His mouth.  What's fascinating is >> how >>> God worked in the light, and not in the dark.  Doesn't that say >>> something about God's nature from the very start!  A glorious God! Jesus Christ is the light by which the work is done: "I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is DAY: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." So Jesus is saying his entire time here is one day and he is the light that lights that day. This is the first day of Genesis that Jesus speaks of. That day was approximately three years long (his ministry) and then he ascended to heaven to be with the Father. So here from Jesus Christ we see one day lasted for approximately three years or 26,298 hours. That's a lot longer than the literal 24-hour days you two men and other creationists propose. Then Jesus sent the comforter on the day of Pentecost, creating two great lights (the saints and powers) to light both day and night, and lesser lights to mark times and seasons. Jesus did say that his disciples are the "light of the world." They are the visible lights that proceed from the true light of the Father and Son. >>> So, no self-created "Big Bang" instant creation for you; sorry, Mr. >> 14 >>> Billion.  Can you see a contradiction?  That is just a by-the-by. >> >> >>> Mike >> >> >> >> I hold Genesis 1 in high regard and have posted on it several times, >> so I won't repeat myself here. I agree with you that the six days are >> literal days. That's what the words mean. Trying to claim they can be >> interpreted as longer periods of time is just forcing an alien notion >> onto it. > > Yep. > > You take it on what it says or you don't. > > As I see it, it is that simple. Both of you believe the days of Genesis are literal 24-hour days. Yet Jesus established his 3-year ministry as a single day, in which he was the light of that long day, before the night came when he left the world. Wait, there's more. Jesus Christ is the light of Genesis chapter one. The cross is the Beginning of the creation of God. Jesus is the Lamb slain BEFORE the foundation of the world. Jesus said: "... It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." Michael defines the 'days' of Genesis as six periods of twenty-four hours. Then he says, "You take it on what it says or you don't." The question is, what does the Spirit say? How does the Father define days, times, and seasons? Does the Spirit define days literally according to human perception? Absolutely not: "(Psalms 90:4) For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." "(II Peter 3:8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." The Apostle says a thousand years is but a day to the Father. And the word, 'thousand' is equally flexible, and is being used as we use the word, 'zillion'. So how many hours is that long of a day? Zillions? Jesus says that the length of the days is not absolute: "(Matthew 24:22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be SHORTENED." "(Mark 13:20) And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days." Ergo the Father will shorten days to a period of time less than usual reckoning. So we know God can count a thousand years (or less, or more) as a single day. "(Job 19:25) For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:" Herein the phrase, "latter day" means a later age. It is not conveying an exact period of twenty-four hours. In your zeal to convert Atheists to the philosophy of Creationsism you two men have converted yourselves to medievalism. ;) Recall the time we call, "the dark ages" of Europe. Those were "dark" days or a "long night." The creation of Genesis chapter one is not about zoology. It is about Jesus Christ, and the spiritual heaven and earth being established upon him at the cross. Thus arguing over, or speculating over, the length of the days in Genesis misses the entire point of Genesis--Jesus Christ! Genesis chapter one began with Jesus Christ. "Let there be light" is in reference to Jesus: "(John 8:12) Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." "(2 Corinthians 4:4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." "Let there be light" is about Jesus. This was the Father's first creative act, to beget his Son from himself. Take note that in Genesis the "Sun" is not created until the 4th day, while the light is the first act of creation, manifest on the first day. There is no sun or moon yet to measure a 24-hour cycle, until the 4th day. This manifestation of the light of the creation is God begetting his Son from out of himself. John the Beloved Apostle tells us exactly this: "(John 1:1-4) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the LIGHT of men. And the LIGHT shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." The philosophy of Creationism is not going to convert atheists to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. A proper understanding of the first chapters of Genesis *might* bring them to wonder and seek God. Once you see that "The Beginning" and "Let there be Light" are Names of God's Only Begotten Son, you can't unsee it: "In the Beginning was the Word." "In the Beginning" is a Name, not a time. Mr. Beginning was the Word (Logos, divine image). And the Word (Mr. Beginning) was with God. And the Word (Mr. Beginning) was God. John repeats Jesus: "I am Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." John says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men." So Jesus Christ is both the Beginning and the Light. And Genesis was written about 3000 years before Christ, while being surprisingly accurate in portraying the ages of the past 2000 years since Jesus ascended. If you read Genesis understanding its idioms, you can see it is a series of prophecies concerning Jesus Christ. Some of the "days" of Genesis are very long ages. Jesus is both the Beginning of Genesis and the Ending, or the Seventh Day of Rest. He is Lord of Light and Lord of the Sabbath. If you can't see Jesus in the first day of the Genesis creation then flip the night switch and see the light. -- NightBulb | https://blog.nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch. How to get ahead in life. Judaism: circumcision. Christianism: lobotomy.