Path: paganini.bofh.team!tor-network!not-for-mail From: "NightBulb.net" Newsgroups: alt.bible Subject: Re: (17) Christmas: A Christian celebration? Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2023 11:24:48 -0500 Organization: To protect and to server Message-ID: <20231018112448.3f223b91.nospam@nightbulb.net> References: <12tt8iti2rt6c781gtl32t5ql6q01ndah7@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: paganini.bofh.team; logging-data="4034026"; posting-host="QMB+SjjeLy5rJK+9UACC6Q.user.paganini.bofh.team"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@bofh.team"; posting-account="9dIQLXBM7WM9KzA+yjdR4A"; Cancel-Lock: sha256:/rbwu6X2MIxNiGISwAUNLMhGsXG3DjQEKBf3HDPd61M= X-TOR-Router: sha256:MmEwMDoxYjg4OjQ6OjM= -- X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.3 Xref: paganini.bofh.team alt.bible:663298 On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 13:11:57 -0400 James wrote: > Jesus was NOT preordained to die. If Adam and Eve obeyed their Creator > back then, there would have been no reason for him to give his life. If Jesus was not preordained to die then you deny the entirety of scripture, for all of scripture from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22 is founded upon the testimony that Jesus is the Firstborn from the dead. The first word(s) of Genesis 1:1 are Bereshith or "Bai Rashee" depending on how you pronounce the ancient form. This is written in Hebrew pictrograms that symbolize the crucifixion. The very first word of Genesis is a picture symbol of the crucifixion! "By and through him were all things created ..." Adam and Eve were created so that Jesus could come into being and die at the cross. The whole point of this ages-long boiling frog exercise is for Jesus Christ to glorify God and mankind together as one, with mankind having obtained the glory of wisdom, which cannot happen without knowing sin and death. Mankind must suffer to die to himself, to come to the end of self, to reject the personal imagination as the source of authority, and realize the imagination is for enjoyment, not power. This cannot happen without suffering and death. It's just the way things are. It is the nature of existence as a finite being. Do you suppose God did not know and foresee this before he made man? Of course he foresaw it. So he set up the very circumstances that would accelerate it and lead to his antidote for it. I can't dare be kind in rebuking your nonsense in this matter. You're a dumb mook, James, and your parents should slap you across the face. God beforehand ordained that Adam and Eve should have the chance to fail: Romans 11 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? It is silly how you religious people counsel God and tell him what he can and can't do. God put both the serpent and the tree of knowledge in the garden, then told man not to eat, then left them to their own devices. What do you think children will do in such a situation? Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. God had already ordained that mankind would go through death and that Jesus would redeem them, before he even made mankind. Religion says: "Drat, look at those pesky humans with all their power and might mucking up the plans of God. If only Adam and Even hadn't sinned, God's plan would have gone full steam ahead. But that's OK, God is gonna annihilate 99% of his creatures, and only the special religious ones will survive! It only takes him thousands of years to finally do what he could do in an instant, because of man's free will be so powerful and able to resist God for so long ..." Galatians 2:21 I do not FRUSTRATE the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Read that again. Righteousness came by death. First the death of Jesus, and after the death of every man who dies to self in Jesus. "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it." When a solider goes to boot camp the drill instructors harass, harry, deride, insult, and abuse the trainees relentlessly. They subject the trainees to pain, deprivation, suffering, humiliation, and a host of cruel treatments, in order to break their self-will and make them work as a team, or a family of fighters. Will you accuse the drill instructors of being evil? Because of the nasty nonsense the drill instructors do to recruits, you have a relatively safe country to live in. Without their mean and tough treatment, soldiers would be easily defeated by the enemy and the country would be invaded in short order. You have to slog through pigshit if you are going to make bacon. That is what the fall of man entails. Something glorious is being created from the pressure, smoke, and fire of mankind's suffering. -- NightBulb | https://nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.